吉諾比利被嚴重低估，他為馬刺犧牲太多，哈登是現代版的馬努？

JJ雷迪克評價馬努-吉諾比利：「馬努其實是在馬刺當過一些年的核心的。他那時候簡直是怪物。吉諾比利基本上就是初代哈登。而哈登是現代版本的吉諾比利。」

JJ Reddick on Manu: "There were a few years where the Spurs were Manu』s team. I mean, he was a monster. He was essentially Harden before Harden. Harden is now the modern version of Ginobili."

[–]Raptorslekobe_rose 381 指標 22小時前

Why is it so overlooked that a team led by Manu Ginobili and Luis Scola beat Team USA? We don't know how Harden would perform under Pop and next to Timmy and TP. And we don't know how Ginobili would do leading his own NBA team. So all we can compare is their styles. And Harden already said that a lot of his game is based on Manu's. So they're similar.

馬努-吉諾比利和路易斯-斯科拉帶領的球隊曾經打敗過美國國家隊，為什麼人們總是忽視這點呢？我們不知道哈登在波波維奇的指導下和鄧肯與帕克做隊友會有怎樣的表現。我們也不知道吉諾比利獨自帶領一支球隊會有怎樣的表現。因此，我們能比較的只有他們的風格。哈登已經說過他的比賽中很多東西都是建立在向馬努學習的基礎上。所以他們的確很相似。

[–]Spursddjeff 209 指標 20小時前

Fun fact: Manu was the only NBA player on that team at the time. Possibly the greatest basketball upset of all time.

一個有趣的事實是：馬努是當時那隻阿根廷隊唯一的NBA球員。 阿根廷擊敗美國隊可能是歷史上最偉大的以下克上。

[–]NBAzxc123zxc123 115 指標 18小時前*

Goes to show how awesome Manu is.

Also shits on that argument that Melo-trolls have about how Olympic golds don't matter. Olympic golds while playing on team USA don't have that high prestige since you are playing on a stacked USA team and the difficulty is rather low compared to winning in the NBA. However, a gold for any other team like Manu's Argentinian team against an insane USA team (Popovich was an their asst coach too btw) imo has more value than 1 NBA championship ring for just the sheer difficulty.

這可以展現出馬努是多麼的出色。

去他媽的安東尼黑，說什麼奧運會金牌根本不重要。奧運金牌在美國隊打球時並沒有那麼高的聲望，因為在美國隊中打球，難度相對於NBA要更簡單一些。然而，像馬努的阿根廷隊擊敗這樣一隻瘋狂的美國隊來贏得金牌（順便說句，波波維奇還是這隻美國隊的助教），單純就難度而言，在我看來比贏得一枚NBA總冠軍戒指更有價值。

[–]peppermintpattymills 45 指標 17小時前

Spain almost knocked off USA in the 2012 Gold medal game too (at least, they kept it close until the last four-ish minutes or so), which makes the Spanish players on that team, especially Pau since he went off, look really good.

西班牙同樣幾乎在2012年的金牌爭奪中擊敗了美國（至少他們十分接近，直到最後的四分鐘左右），這使那支西班牙隊的球員看起來都非常出色（尤其是加索爾，因為他那場大爆發）。

[–]Spurshhunterhh 546 指標 23小時前

As much as I hate him when he's driving to the hole, drawing seemingly 10 fouls a game; I can't help but think Manu would be proud. Outside of the Spurs he might just be my favorite player.

馬刺球迷：儘管每當哈登沖向籃筐每場幾乎博得10個犯規的時候我都恨死他了，我還是不禁想到：吉諾比利看到哈登這麼打球一定會很驕傲的。哈登是我最喜歡的馬刺隊以外的球員。

[–]Raptorsketchupisgood 73 指標 23小時前

Didn't Harden say Manu was his favourite player?

Sucks that Manu wasn't as durable or as strong as Harden. People in the past blasted Pop for holding Manu back but fans overlooked Manu's fragility. IMO, Manu has had such a long career because of Pop.

哈登不是說馬努是他最喜歡的運動員嗎？

馬努沒有哈登這樣耐操，這真的是太遺憾了。過去人們都說波波維奇太壓制馬努了，但是球迷們經常忽視馬努沒有那麼耐用，在我看來，馬努能有如此長久的職業生涯都是因為波波維奇呀。

[–]Spursavi550m 344 指標 22小時前

Manu still owns Harden

馬努還是能教哈登做人的

視頻：吉諾比利G5蓋掉哈登扳平比分的一球！>>

[–]Spurshhunterhh 187 指標 22小時前

Gotta let your son know whose the man around the house every now and then.

馬刺球迷：作為父母，你有必要時不時地讓你的孩子知道這個家是你做主的,TX。

[–]JazzI_Am_Butthurt 83 指標 21小時前

God that is such a horrible play by Anderson

天，安德森這球處理的真垃圾。

[–]JazzI_Am_Butthurt 38 指標 21小時前

It's worse than that because he catches the ball and it looks like because of bad footwork? thathes forced to not dribble. Then takes too long to get the pass to Harden who was wide open at 6 seconds, then when he finally does pass it almost two seconds later, he stays close to Harden allowing the easy double.

比這更糟糕，因為他停住了球，可能是因為腳步不好？ 他被迫停球， 然後花了太長的時間才將傳球傳給處在大空位的哈登，這時候還有6秒左右。而安德森磨磨唧唧的又花了兩秒才將球傳到哈登手裡，他離哈登又太近了，對方輕鬆的對實行了哈登雙人包夾。

[–]KingsBoxcar-Mike 25 指標 19小時前

drawing fouls is a smart way to play. Kobe averaged like 10FTs a game. But yeah, they can be frustrating to watch.

造犯規是一種聰明的打球方法。科比平均每場能獲得10個罰球。不過這種打球方式確實看著很無聊。

[–]Warriorsbumpkinspicefatte 48 指標 21小時前

「drawing seemingly 10 fouls a game」

That's 17 points per Harden's career FT%. It's a good strategy scoring-wise, just annoying af to watch and slows the game down.

「每場比賽造10個犯規」

哈登的職業生涯中每場比賽憑藉犯規要得17分。這是一個聰明的得分手段，就是嚴重降低了比賽的觀賞性。

[–][SAS] Kawhi Leonardctr11967 562 指標 1 天前

The reason I love James Harden is because of how much he reminded me of Manu early in his career. The comparison seems "crazy" if you use prime Harden, but it is easy to see how alike they were when Harden was in OKC and his first year in Houston.

我愛哈登的一個原因就是他能讓我想起早年的馬努。這種比較看起來很瘋狂，好像你使用的是早年的哈登，但是雷霆時期和剛來火箭的哈登與馬努的相似性還是很容易發現的。

[–]Heat BandwagonHerculix 516 指標 22小時前

It's really not crazy. If people think that's crazy, they need to stop for a second and realize how many rings Manu has. He is no fuckin joke. People have a hard time guarding him NOW, much less 10 years ago. Timmy didn't do all that shit by himself, Manu was the most prolific scorer of all the Spurs players during their prime era.

這一點也不瘋狂。如果人們覺得瘋狂，那真應該停下來好好想想馬努有幾個戒指。吉諾比利可不是什麼小人物。現在的馬努都很難防，更別說十年前了。鄧肯可不是一個人孤軍奮戰的。縱觀馬刺隊史，巔峰期得分能力最出色的球員就是吉諾比利。

[–]AlphaWolf101 187 指標 22小時前

Not true... Duncan was putting up 25ppg while Manu never cracked 20. Also if you include Admiral he's 3rd

這不是真的，鄧肯生涯平均25分以上而馬努從來沒超過20分。如果你算上大衛-羅賓遜，馬努才是第三位。[譯註1]

[譯註1]：第三位應為「冰人」喬治-格文，馬努是第五位。

[–]Spursdubsac012 49 指標 22小時前

His sacrifices simultaneously make him an enigma and a what-if. Something that isn't really considered is that during our run, Manu got so much criticism for his turnovers, saying that he couldn't and shouldn't play more minutes. Since the game has transformed, it's easier to see that some ball handlers have enough talent to more than compensate for that (Harden, Westbrook).

馬努所做出的犧牲也讓他的能力成了一個未知數。人們容易忽視的一點就是，在我刺爭冠的那幾年中，馬努經常因為他的花式失誤招來批評的聲音，人們說他沒能力也不應該打更長時間。由於時代轉變的緣故，一些持球者可以憑藉天賦來彌補自己在失誤方面的不足，比如哈登和維斯布魯克。

[–]New Jersey NetsLiaM_CS 357 指標 22小時前*

Manu almost always came off the bench, played far less minutes, had a lower usg%, and took less shots.

Tim and Manu's per 36/100 pos are incredibly similar in terms of offensive efficiency, Manu actually has a higher offensive rtg.

If Manu played as much as Tim, or had the ball in his hands as much, it isn't unbelievable to think Manu would be the bigger offensive threat.

EDIT: Manu also has a higher eFG% throughout his career which is pretty incredible

馬努幾乎總是替補出戰，與哈登相比他出場時間更少，使用率更低，投籃次數也更少。鄧肯和馬努的36分鐘和100回合的PER值根據進攻效率是極其相似的。馬努實際上有著更高的進攻效率值。如果馬努打的像鄧肯一樣多，或者持球一樣多，並不難相信馬努會在進攻端有更大的威脅。

[–]76ersSkeptiSys 113 指標 22小時前

Also the Spurs played at a slower pace than the Rockets. Career per 100 possessions : Manu 27.8 points, 7.8 assists, 7.3 rebounds, 2.8 steals vs. Harden 32.9 points, 8.5 assists, 7.5 rebounds, 2.2 steals.

並且馬刺隊比火箭隊的節奏要更慢。職業生涯每100次進攻回合：馬努27.8分，7.8助攻，7.3籃板，2.8搶斷vs哈登32.9分，8.5助攻，7.5籃板，2.2搶斷。

[–]SpursWirelessSurvivor 290 指標 23小時前

It seems people are forgetting just how good Manu was. His best year:

19.5/4.8/4.5 on 46/40/85

Peak Ginobili was an explosive loose cannon, played at 110% every game (still does), and was a really good defender. It's not far-fetched to say that he would've had great numbers if he had his own team.

看起來人們已經忘記了馬努的偉大。他在最好的賽季（2007-2008）場均19.8分，4.8籃板，4.5助攻，三項命中率是46/40/85。巔峰的吉諾比利是一個完全無法預料的傢伙，每場比賽付出110%的精力（至今仍然如此），同時還是一個真正優秀的防守者。如果他獨自帶隊的話，打出非常勁爆的數據並非一件很牽強的事。

[–][LAL] Kobe Bryantuntraiined 211 指標 23小時前

Peak manu could run the same play five times straight and end with a different pass or shot everytime. Thatsalot like what harden does.

巔峰馬努能夠連續打5次打同一個戰術，然後每次都用不同的投籃或者傳球結束。這和哈登做的簡直太像了。

[–]hubau 92 指標 23小時前

Prime Manu is wildly underappreciated. Advanced stats always loved him more than the public opinion.

Interestingly the general opinion is that Tony Parker was a more valuable piece for the Spurs when they were both in their primes, but by WS/48 and BPM, it was Manu who was the clear #2 on that team behind Tim Duncan.

從前的馬努是被眼中低估了。他的高階技術統計比公眾的印象更能反映他的價值。有趣的是，在大眾印象中，在他們早期的時候，托尼-帕克是對馬刺更有價值的那個，但是通過每48分鐘勝利貢獻值和聯盟平均水平正負值來看，馬努才明顯是那個鄧肯之後的二把手。

[–]SpursWirelessSurvivor 55 指標 22小時前

I always thought Manu was more valuable than Parker (and still is). Don't get me wrong, Prime Parker was a beast, but Manu's skillset and versatility is one of a kind.

我總是認為馬努比帕克更有價值（現在仍然這樣）。不要誤解我，從前的帕克是個野獸，但是馬努的多樣的技術和即插即用的能力是萬里挑一的。

[–]Lakerssheeeeeez 74 指標 23小時前

It's a shame we never got to see what Manu was capable of with high usage, increased shot attempts

我們從未見過有著更高使用率的馬努和更多投籃嘗試的馬努，真的是一個遺憾。

[–][WAS] Javaris CrittentonIyammagawd 130 指標 23小時前

we did, in the playoffs.

我們其實在季後賽看到了這樣的馬努。

[–]SpursBoogiePelicans 56 指標 22小時前

2005 Finals Manu was a beast

2005總決賽的馬努如野獸般兇猛。